Is There Room for Organics in Mainstream Fine Dining Restaurants?
Over the past few months I've been focusing more on organic (as well as biodynamic, vegan and variations of sustainably produced) wines; although as a longtime restaurateur (over thirty years) and like so many others in the business, up until recently I've never really given credence to the fact that a wine may (or may not) be organic, as I've carried on my selection process.
In fact, if anything, many of us in the on-premise industry have been wary of organics for the simple reasons that
1. Organics also mean riskier, and thus less stable or predictable, wine products (at the point of sale, servers hate suggesting unpredictable wines of any sort).
2. We're not sure guests (especially in high-end restaurants) really give a damn.
However, anyone with two eyes and a brain can see that organic foodstuffs is now a huge, zillion dollar industry with seemingly limitless growth potential; and now, wines specifically labeled as organic (and of course, biodynamic and vegan) are making significant headway in the retail markets.
Question is, does the success of organic foods and wines in retail markets indicate the time has come for more emphasis of the same in mainstream fine dining restaurants? What is your opinion... should it be done... or better yet, why hasn't it really been done (apart from in organically themed restaurants)? Is this something you even give a damn about?
In fact, if anything, many of us in the on-premise industry have been wary of organics for the simple reasons that
1. Organics also mean riskier, and thus less stable or predictable, wine products (at the point of sale, servers hate suggesting unpredictable wines of any sort).
2. We're not sure guests (especially in high-end restaurants) really give a damn.
However, anyone with two eyes and a brain can see that organic foodstuffs is now a huge, zillion dollar industry with seemingly limitless growth potential; and now, wines specifically labeled as organic (and of course, biodynamic and vegan) are making significant headway in the retail markets.
Question is, does the success of organic foods and wines in retail markets indicate the time has come for more emphasis of the same in mainstream fine dining restaurants? What is your opinion... should it be done... or better yet, why hasn't it really been done (apart from in organically themed restaurants)? Is this something you even give a damn about?
Views: 4
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by brianwerling on -
I can honestly say I don't give a damn. If I am indicative of the market that a particular restaurant wishes to appeal to, than I would say it doesn't matter. However, if the target market TRULY values organics, than I would say it is worthy of consideration. No reason go out of your way to provide something if the guest does not want it. They are the ultimate decision makers.
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Permalink Reply by Lisa de Bruin on -
Sustainable Agriculture is more relevant and interesting for the wine industry but is only a piece of the puzzle. If the price/quality ratio isn't there...then the fabulous, sexy packaging, the story, etc. that contributes to the consumers lifestyle & perception of themselves, even if wine is Organic, would mean nothing.
Without knowing more science, personally, as a consumer, I'm not looking to alcohol for organic-ness. Really. I want a good drink. Great if the packaging is green, the production has a low carbon footprint, the labor is well treated, etc. Organic is too small a sliver of the big picture.
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Permalink Reply by Sean Kircher on -
Truthfully, I feel like until organic wine can garner the consistency of conventional wine, then it doesn't matter. With very few exceptions, organic wine doesn't have the shelf stability of "conventional" wine. While organic is growing as an industry; it still doesn't have the market share that conventional has, until this changes organic wine cannot challenge "conventional" wine as a premier player in the retail industry. Organic in finished product wine doesn't mean enough yet, but organically grown grapes are great and when organic wines can be treated with the same substances as the grapes (mainly sulfur, or specifically so2), organic wines won't have the shelf stability of conventional wines.
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Permalink Reply by Randy Caparoso on -
Ah, but here's the rub, Sean: there are, in fact, more and more organic, biodynamic, vegan and/or sustainably produced wines available to the public that are just as sound and delicious as wines that are not produces in such fashion.
Just to use one (of a number of) example: for many, many years the wines of Frog's Leap in Napa Valley have consistently been voted among the most popular wines in restaurants across the country, according to all the major wine publications who have taken such polls. Yet for well over ten years now, Frog's Leap has been certified organic in the vineyard as well as in the winery (wines are bottled with no additional sulfites); and if anything, Frog's Leap wines have consistently rated "better" than most.
So I am asking these questions not because organics are not of high enough quality, but because they are now clearly making headway in retail markets. So the question is: would you, or people you know, appreciate it if you also saw more of them in mainstream restaurants?
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Permalink Reply by Sean Kircher on
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While I agree that Frog's Leap is a consistently good wine, the general perception of organic wine, unlike organically, or biodynamically grown grapes, is that they cannot hold up well unless cellared precisely. Frog's Leap's image is the exception, not the rule, both in perception of the organic wine market and, in my opinion, actual quality. It seems like organic wine will continue to play to a niche market until a "name" producer wants to champion the cause, like Shafer, Sinksey or one of the various organic grape wine producers.
That said, from my perspective, despite organic's major strides in sales in meat and produce, it still is a niche market, even in the stronghold urban areas where it is thriving (San Francisco, Denver? you'd know better than I, New York, etc.). I compare it to the effect that Sideways had on merlot and pinot noir, pinot noir sales spiked, but it still hardly made a dent in the market share merlot had over it.
So, in answer to your final question, in order to make organic wines mainstream, it will take mainstream restaurants carrying them. I don't really see how this could be a bad thing for the industry and I always enjoy seeing variety and new ideas on wine lists; I approve.
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Permalink Reply by Randy Caparoso on
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No question, today organic wines still represent a niche even in the retail market. It took, of course, a good forty or so years (after the macrobiotic culture of the '60s) for organic foods to climb out of similar type niches. But look where they are at today... even in Walmart!
The world is moving faster, undoubtedly. I'm not sure, for another (unrelated) example, if many of us in the business quite anticipated the proliferation of screwcaps in the fine wine market just six, seven years ago. Even in the wine world, movements seem to pick up more speed.
Here's another irony: a large percentage of the French industry has been producing organic wines for years (and like Frog's Leap, not marketing as such). As with so many other techniques, producers around the world are simply embracing something of somewhat long tradition (with, presumably, more control and empirical approach).
In the end, consumers themselves (rather than, say, journalists) drive markets. So whatever our assessments may be in these blogospheres, we just may be surprised by where these consumers take us, and how quickly they do it.
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Permalink Reply by Amy Atwood on
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I think the question of whether the consumers gives a damn depends somewhat on the geographic location. Certainly more casual consumers in California are asking the 'organic' questions.
I am more interested in the grapes being chemical free but less interested in no added sulfite wines due to their inherent lack of stability.
There have been several recent media reports of pesticide traces being found bottled beverages( one raid in Europe found traces in dozens of wines, as well as the recent shochu incident where pesticides from rice were actually present in the finished product).
Despite the above, 'organic' wines will probably remain a niche market for quite some time.
This is a topic that I cover in my blog, Mydailywine.com
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Permalink Reply by Randy Caparoso on
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Thanks, Amy (as well as Sean, Lisa and Brian). Besides your thoughts on "what is in wine" on your blog, Amy, I did notice some thoughtful links to sites dedicated to organic and biodynamic foods and beverages, and so I know your heart is personally into that.
The question again, though, is just how long will organic wines remain a "niche" market... a "long time," as you say? Or will the commercial importance loom upon us much sooner than what you or I may suspect.
You see, you and I are wine geeks. Why else would we write blogs on it? So of course, we tend to put pure quality above concerns such as use of sulfites, chemicals or "natural" synthetics in vineyards, or animal product derived filters and fining (i.e. non-vegan) agents. But what about the growing number of people who don't? Consumers who are insisting more and more upon an unimpeachable level of purity whether or not it makes a wine taste better?
There is, after all, a growing percentage of the population that is spending a lot more money for things like milk, vegetables and meats that are organic, despite the fact that organic promises neither higher quality nor significant taste differentiation compared to non-organic products. At what point does this become important to the wine consuming portions of that population?
Anyhow, this is all just food and wine for thought. Any others?
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Permalink Reply by Andria Tay on -
Personally it's not important to me, but I have a friend who's allergic to a lot of commercially produced wines and often must insist on an organic/ biodynamically-produced wine, or drink something else. For that reason, more than the trendiness/ political correctness of an "organic" label, I think it's worth putting a good wine or two from that category on any list.
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Permalink Reply by Bridget on -
Because I know a lot of the valley's dirty little secrets, I can tell you that not all "organic" wines are 100% organic, or even 70% for that matter. I think that in -the- know sommliers hear a little more of what goes on in the valley and the bottom line for a restaurant is quality.
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Permalink Reply by not any of your business on -
Check out what RM Seafood in Las Vegas is doing (www.rmseafood.com).
"At Rm Seafood, we are committed to use organically grown, sustainable produce and sustainably caught seafood. We have made a public commitment to solely purchase sustainable wines by June 2008 and 95 percent of the menu proteins come from sustainably raised or caught seafood. It is our goal at RM Seafood to help our guest connect their individual buying decisions to the health of the oceans and the soil."
Before they will put a wine on their list, they must have a completed survey. The wineries don't necessarily need to have certifications, but they need to meet RM's standards of sustainability. At first there was a lot of questioning in the wine community as to if this would work. I can say that it works great and they have a huge selection of wineries to choose from and pair with their sustainably caught seafood selections.
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Permalink Reply by Randy Caparoso on
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Thanks for turning our attention to RM, Shalom. Looked at the wine list. Only thing I wished it had was specific wording on the wines and categories, notating its standards sustainability or organic/biodynamic definitions. But it looks like a positive step towards an even more major step.
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